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	<title>Comments for Dave Tughan&#039;s Portfolio</title>
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	<link>http://tughan.ca</link>
	<description>A walk on the un-wild side</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:12:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by Cathy</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-209</guid>
		<description>There is no death penalty in DC, but the federal authorities can and do use the death penalty, and treason is a capital offense.  I agree with the rest of your comments except that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no death penalty in DC, but the federal authorities can and do use the death penalty, and treason is a capital offense.  I agree with the rest of your comments except that one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by david.tughan</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>david.tughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Well, I think that Orlov thought she might have turned because of the marriage, and then made it happen by taking and killing her husband (whom she had really fallen in love with). Her concern from the beginning was about whether he was safe, and I think it&#039;s possible that she might have gone ahead with the mission if Orlov hadn&#039;t killed what&#039;s-his-name, the bug guy. Of course, she took the spider venom as soon as she know hubby was gone, setting up the fake assassination, so maybe not ...

On the realism front, there&#039;s certainly room for doubt, but this kind of thing is pretty standard movie fare. And, of course, there are plenty of pop psychologists ready to explain away any amount of insane behavior on the basis of childhood trauma. Apparently, being spanked can ruin you for like (ah, this explains so much).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I think that Orlov thought she might have turned because of the marriage, and then made it happen by taking and killing her husband (whom she had really fallen in love with). Her concern from the beginning was about whether he was safe, and I think it&#8217;s possible that she might have gone ahead with the mission if Orlov hadn&#8217;t killed what&#8217;s-his-name, the bug guy. Of course, she took the spider venom as soon as she know hubby was gone, setting up the fake assassination, so maybe not &#8230;</p>
<p>On the realism front, there&#8217;s certainly room for doubt, but this kind of thing is pretty standard movie fare. And, of course, there are plenty of pop psychologists ready to explain away any amount of insane behavior on the basis of childhood trauma. Apparently, being spanked can ruin you for like (ah, this explains so much).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by Addison</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Addison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-204</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t exactly clear to me, even though I have read all your posts (great for clearing up any holes- and confirming much of my frustration with the plot) but really, what&#039;s Salt&#039;s motivation for turning against Orlov and the rest?  I doesn&#039;t make sense to me that it would be due to her capture in North Korea, as that was due to CIA business, so wouldn&#039;t she be more miffed at the CIA than the Russians?  To me, that was the biggest plot hole that bothered me from the get-go....

Also, if we take a second to think about realism (which, I know, should never be talked about in a film like this) how is it realistic that young children will follow the instructions that were instilled in them in their training all the way to adulthood.  Sorry, but I wanted to be Miss America and a ballerina when I was little...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t exactly clear to me, even though I have read all your posts (great for clearing up any holes- and confirming much of my frustration with the plot) but really, what&#8217;s Salt&#8217;s motivation for turning against Orlov and the rest?  I doesn&#8217;t make sense to me that it would be due to her capture in North Korea, as that was due to CIA business, so wouldn&#8217;t she be more miffed at the CIA than the Russians?  To me, that was the biggest plot hole that bothered me from the get-go&#8230;.</p>
<p>Also, if we take a second to think about realism (which, I know, should never be talked about in a film like this) how is it realistic that young children will follow the instructions that were instilled in them in their training all the way to adulthood.  Sorry, but I wanted to be Miss America and a ballerina when I was little&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by Emily</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-153</guid>
		<description>I understand everything in the movie perfectly because i put two and two together and figured it out. However, the only part that i don&#039;t understand that you might IS after killing Orlov and the other russian spies, if SALT wanted revenge on the russians why would she go to the white house to kill the US president? Orlov told her SHE was supposed to kill the president and she had no idea Winter was a spy so how did she know to save the president?why put the president in danger at all? there was no revenge to get by killing the president! I hope this made since please explain this i would appreciate it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand everything in the movie perfectly because i put two and two together and figured it out. However, the only part that i don&#8217;t understand that you might IS after killing Orlov and the other russian spies, if SALT wanted revenge on the russians why would she go to the white house to kill the US president? Orlov told her SHE was supposed to kill the president and she had no idea Winter was a spy so how did she know to save the president?why put the president in danger at all? there was no revenge to get by killing the president! I hope this made since please explain this i would appreciate it!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by david.tughan</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>david.tughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 17:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-152</guid>
		<description>OK, good thinking. You&#039;re right - I don&#039;t think she could have known that Winter had the little confession speech with the President. I really should have caught that ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, good thinking. You&#8217;re right &#8211; I don&#8217;t think she could have known that Winter had the little confession speech with the President. I really should have caught that &#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by bliz</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>bliz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 16:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-151</guid>
		<description>I would like to propose patches 1 and 2.

patch 1:
possible reason 1: Orlov was under some watchlist (by virtue of being a Russian, not because he was a high-ranking Russian officer), so the only way to speak to her personally (he didn&#039;t think that the other agents will be able to convince her that it&#039;s his orders) is to &quot;deflect&quot;.

possible reason 2: Orlov chose to make a flash expose to draw all attention to Salt, making the CIA less likely to look elsewhere, making the already unsuspected Winter even less of a candidate for suspicion. If Salt decides to assassinate and succeeds, it&#039;s a good thing for the Russian will arm their warheads. Even if Salt fails it wouldn&#039;t be important, as he still has Winter. I think it&#039;s not so important to get the Russian president killed, he&#039;s just a side effect. What&#039;s more important is give the CIA the jitters, so that they&#039;ll want to have access (and they&#039;ll have) to the US president. I think that if the situation is not tense, the US president will just have his SS agents, and there&#039;s no reason for a CIA staff (Winter) to hang around him.


patch 2:
The president is most likely alive and unconscious, but it doesn&#039;t matter. Neither Peabody nor Salt saw what happened in the bulletproof command centre before the authorization was done, so they couldn&#039;t have known with certainty that the president was knocked unconscious by Winter after witnessing Winter shooting all the other guys. Remember that Salt was taken away as soon as the final troops arrived, thus there wasn&#039;t any time for the president to wake. On the helicopter, both didn&#039;t know that the president witnessed anything.

---

It&#039;s interesting to note that those agents are most likely KGB agents from USSR. Now that it&#039;s dissolved and it&#039;s Russia, who&#039;s the one who controls these spies if the KGB replacement agency does not inherit this unit? It appears that it could be Orlov with his deluded political thinking of destroying the US, at the expense of their own president. Perhaps he&#039;s a communist and don&#039;t recognize democratically elected president of Russia.

All these are just my opinions. Inaccuracies are my own.

I love reading plot holes, and I equally enjoy trying to patch them (if it can be done, and if I enjoyed that movie of course), for if it does help someone enjoy a movie retrospectively, I&#039;ll feel good about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to propose patches 1 and 2.</p>
<p>patch 1:<br />
possible reason 1: Orlov was under some watchlist (by virtue of being a Russian, not because he was a high-ranking Russian officer), so the only way to speak to her personally (he didn&#8217;t think that the other agents will be able to convince her that it&#8217;s his orders) is to &#8220;deflect&#8221;.</p>
<p>possible reason 2: Orlov chose to make a flash expose to draw all attention to Salt, making the CIA less likely to look elsewhere, making the already unsuspected Winter even less of a candidate for suspicion. If Salt decides to assassinate and succeeds, it&#8217;s a good thing for the Russian will arm their warheads. Even if Salt fails it wouldn&#8217;t be important, as he still has Winter. I think it&#8217;s not so important to get the Russian president killed, he&#8217;s just a side effect. What&#8217;s more important is give the CIA the jitters, so that they&#8217;ll want to have access (and they&#8217;ll have) to the US president. I think that if the situation is not tense, the US president will just have his SS agents, and there&#8217;s no reason for a CIA staff (Winter) to hang around him.</p>
<p>patch 2:<br />
The president is most likely alive and unconscious, but it doesn&#8217;t matter. Neither Peabody nor Salt saw what happened in the bulletproof command centre before the authorization was done, so they couldn&#8217;t have known with certainty that the president was knocked unconscious by Winter after witnessing Winter shooting all the other guys. Remember that Salt was taken away as soon as the final troops arrived, thus there wasn&#8217;t any time for the president to wake. On the helicopter, both didn&#8217;t know that the president witnessed anything.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note that those agents are most likely KGB agents from USSR. Now that it&#8217;s dissolved and it&#8217;s Russia, who&#8217;s the one who controls these spies if the KGB replacement agency does not inherit this unit? It appears that it could be Orlov with his deluded political thinking of destroying the US, at the expense of their own president. Perhaps he&#8217;s a communist and don&#8217;t recognize democratically elected president of Russia.</p>
<p>All these are just my opinions. Inaccuracies are my own.</p>
<p>I love reading plot holes, and I equally enjoy trying to patch them (if it can be done, and if I enjoyed that movie of course), for if it does help someone enjoy a movie retrospectively, I&#8217;ll feel good about it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by david.tughan</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>david.tughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Well, I would have thought that the security camera film of them trying to kill one another would have been in her favour on the whole &quot;working with Liev&quot; thing. Not to mention Orlov and the boatload of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I would have thought that the security camera film of them trying to kill one another would have been in her favour on the whole &#8220;working with Liev&#8221; thing. Not to mention Orlov and the boatload of others.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by david.tughan</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>david.tughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-149</guid>
		<description>I see what you mean with the timeline stuff. Hadn&#039;t really thought about that. And I did enjoy the movie, as an action movie. I just think that some things could have been thought through better. There are some comments later on about the probably success of murdering a loved one in order to bring a possibly disloyal spy back into the family.

I do get the &quot;running away&quot; part at the end as well, though I think that she would have been better used as a fake-killed-and-resurrected member of the American Team (for some reason I&#039;m thinking of puppets ...) like John Kelly/John Clark was in the Tom Clancy novels. If her goal is to go after the other Russian sleepers, it makes sense to help her out, though I assume that&#039;s what the Firefly bad guy whose name I can never remember will be doing in future installments. Wipe the slate clean, agree that she did some bad and some good things, and set her on the trail with a little backup instead of soaking wet in the snow. If she develops a nasty chest cold, that could really slow her down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see what you mean with the timeline stuff. Hadn&#8217;t really thought about that. And I did enjoy the movie, as an action movie. I just think that some things could have been thought through better. There are some comments later on about the probably success of murdering a loved one in order to bring a possibly disloyal spy back into the family.</p>
<p>I do get the &#8220;running away&#8221; part at the end as well, though I think that she would have been better used as a fake-killed-and-resurrected member of the American Team (for some reason I&#8217;m thinking of puppets &#8230;) like John Kelly/John Clark was in the Tom Clancy novels. If her goal is to go after the other Russian sleepers, it makes sense to help her out, though I assume that&#8217;s what the Firefly bad guy whose name I can never remember will be doing in future installments. Wipe the slate clean, agree that she did some bad and some good things, and set her on the trail with a little backup instead of soaking wet in the snow. If she develops a nasty chest cold, that could really slow her down.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by david.tughan</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>david.tughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Well, I see what you mean, and I definitely agree about suspension of disbelief and so on. I do see a difference between &quot;plot holes&quot; and &quot;action holes,&quot; though. The whole &quot;babe who triumphs&quot; thing is too obvious to talk about too much (though I do appreciate BBC TV stuff for using more &quot;regular humans&quot; in their stuff). Likewise, we all know there&#039;s no point counting how many bullets someone is able to fire from an automatic without reloading. Or how many people they can punch in the face without their hands turning int hamburger (handburger?).

Plot holes are different, because they involve suspension of intelligence or memory, not just disbelief. It\s not impossible to write a coherent story that involves betrayal and duplicity and so on and so on - authors do it all the time. Maybe the folks writing movies aren&#039;t always in the same class, or maybe writing by committee has these drawbacks, but other movies have done it. Granted, the ones that pop into mind were books first, so maybe that says something ...

Back to the first (&quot;why burn her&quot;) hole, as that seems to be generating most of the comments - after all the back-and-forth, I&#039;m still no clearer on it. If they doubted her sincerity, as I agree they did (the later dialog about her not having supposed to get married, for example), it still doesn&#039;t make sense to test her sincerity by doing the most likely thing to turn her against them (killing her husband, and right in front of her too). Later on we realize that she was planning to double-cross them already, but wasn&#039;t that likely to bring on a killing spree in anyone not stone-cold-sleeper? If they doubted her, that just doesn&#039;t seem like a workable test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I see what you mean, and I definitely agree about suspension of disbelief and so on. I do see a difference between &#8220;plot holes&#8221; and &#8220;action holes,&#8221; though. The whole &#8220;babe who triumphs&#8221; thing is too obvious to talk about too much (though I do appreciate BBC TV stuff for using more &#8220;regular humans&#8221; in their stuff). Likewise, we all know there&#8217;s no point counting how many bullets someone is able to fire from an automatic without reloading. Or how many people they can punch in the face without their hands turning int hamburger (handburger?).</p>
<p>Plot holes are different, because they involve suspension of intelligence or memory, not just disbelief. It\s not impossible to write a coherent story that involves betrayal and duplicity and so on and so on &#8211; authors do it all the time. Maybe the folks writing movies aren&#8217;t always in the same class, or maybe writing by committee has these drawbacks, but other movies have done it. Granted, the ones that pop into mind were books first, so maybe that says something &#8230;</p>
<p>Back to the first (&#8220;why burn her&#8221;) hole, as that seems to be generating most of the comments &#8211; after all the back-and-forth, I&#8217;m still no clearer on it. If they doubted her sincerity, as I agree they did (the later dialog about her not having supposed to get married, for example), it still doesn&#8217;t make sense to test her sincerity by doing the most likely thing to turn her against them (killing her husband, and right in front of her too). Later on we realize that she was planning to double-cross them already, but wasn&#8217;t that likely to bring on a killing spree in anyone not stone-cold-sleeper? If they doubted her, that just doesn&#8217;t seem like a workable test.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plot holes in Salt by jeff green</title>
		<link>http://tughan.ca/plot-holes-in-salt/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tughan.ca/?p=160#comment-137</guid>
		<description>the original plot holes the reviewer noted were not plot holes, as explained above. they lost trust in her and forced her to proceed with the mission by outing her and taking her husband. the president would recover and know that liev was a bad guy but not that salt wasn&#039;t working with him instead of against him. so the president couldn&#039;t clear her. they didn&#039;t go after the russian agent first because they thought he was being guarded and was truthful and dying, and then because unlike with salt, they would have no idea where he would be going once he left the building. very good spy thriller with only the normal action film stretches of credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the original plot holes the reviewer noted were not plot holes, as explained above. they lost trust in her and forced her to proceed with the mission by outing her and taking her husband. the president would recover and know that liev was a bad guy but not that salt wasn&#8217;t working with him instead of against him. so the president couldn&#8217;t clear her. they didn&#8217;t go after the russian agent first because they thought he was being guarded and was truthful and dying, and then because unlike with salt, they would have no idea where he would be going once he left the building. very good spy thriller with only the normal action film stretches of credibility.</p>
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